Original author: Michael Saylor , founder of Strategy
Compiled by Odaily Planet Daily ( @OdailyChina )
Translator: CryptoLeo ( @LeoAndCrypto )
Recently, Michael Saylor was interviewed by a CNBC reporter. The two sides discussed the rise of corporate Bitcoin reserves, the future of encryption policy, and a clear framework for digital commodities, securities, currencies and tokens to promote industry development.
Odaily compiled it in the form of a QA. The full text is as follows
Q1: Welcome Saylor. This week, there have been many announcements focused on corporate Bitcoin reserves, such as Gamestop announcing a $500 million Bitcoin holding and Trump Media planning to build a $2.5 billion Bitcoin treasury. What do you think of this new trend? Are they doing the right thing?
Saylor: Nothing on earth can stop an idea whose time has come, and the most surprising thing about the past few months has been the energy and enthusiasm surrounding corporate Bitcoin reserves. The Trump Media announcement was unexpected, and it was an extremely bold, aggressive, and smart move on their part, as was the announcement of Nakamoto Native Holdings (Nakamoto Holdings merging with KindlyMD to build a Bitcoin reserve).
(Odaily Note: Nakamoto Holdings is a new company founded by Trump’s cryptocurrency adviser David Bailey - it plans to work with BTC Inc. to establish the world’s first Bitcoin reserve company network.)
I remember telling David that if you believe in Bitcoin, you should raise a lot of money to buy Bitcoin. I offered an idea and was surprised that he actually did it, which made me happy. I think the announcements of SoftBank, Tether, and Twenty One Capital are also great, which will bring a lot of SoftBank money into the Bitcoin market, just as it will bring Masayoshi Son into crypto.
I think its great that Tether is backing a US public company. You know, Metaplanet was a $10 million company before, and a few months ago it was only worth $1 billion, but in the last week or two, the market value has approached $4 billion or $5 billion, becoming the most successful stock. In addition, the French blockchain group has also risen rapidly and developed at an amazing speed.
At this conference, everywhere I went, someone mentioned to me: I started a Bitcoin reserve company in Hong Kong, Im doing this project in Korea, I have a project in Abu Dhabi, were going to do this in the Middle East, we have a project in the UK, were about to launch one in Kenya, were going to launch one in Norway, were doing this in Germany. I think this is great, this is good for Bitcoin. And now theres an explosion of interest in Bitcoin in Brazil.
Each of these companies is introducing Bitcoin to another global capital market. They solve compliance problems, capital market problems, registration problems, and political problems. They are all Bitcoin messengers, planting orange flags around the world. The story always starts with a risky move. Then it becomes: Wow, this is a very successful risk, I have never made so much money, tell me more about Bitcoin, how can I make this money? Soon, a whole new generation of capitalists emerged, and they discovered that Bitcoin is digital capital, which is perhaps the most explosive idea of this era.
Q2: What do you think of Wall Streets less positive reaction to the Trump Media and Gamestop announcements? Gamestops stock price rose 17% after the announcement, but Trump Medias stock price fell 22%, which seems to go against the reaction of Strategy investors?
Saylor: You know, when Gamestop announced that they were considering a Bitcoin strategy, their stock price soared 50% and volume increased 10 times. Then they went to market with that momentum and successfully issued $1.5 billion in convertible bonds. They raised $1.5 billion, and maybe the market hoped that they would buy more Bitcoin.
So I think Trump Media is because of the huge amount of financing, a large part of which is convertible bonds. It is important to note that when you sell convertible bonds, 70% of the face value of the bonds will be shorted as stock. Therefore, convertible arbitrageurs will always hedge stocks and bonds, one more and one short. For example, in the short term, if a company announces a $1 billion secondary stock offering, the stock will fall, and all of these situations are short-term dynamics in a long-term trend.
It turns out that Bitcoin on the balance sheet has been popular and has driven liquidity growth for similar companies. For example, the increase in liquidity for Gamestop will also drive liquidity and earnings for other companies. This may take three months, six months, and sometimes even a year. But this strategy is very reasonable and all these companies will benefit from it.
Q3: You were the first to adopt Bitcoin reserves. Strategy has $62 billion worth of Bitcoin on its balance sheet. Is there a limit on the number of Bitcoins you hold? Or do you have a fixed expected value?
Saylor: No, we will continue to buy Bitcoin, and we expect the price of Bitcoin to continue to rise, so it will become harder and harder to buy Bitcoin, but we will be exponentially more efficient at buying Bitcoin. You know, in the past we thought it was a challenge to raise $200 million, and then we thought it was a challenge to raise $2 billion. In the fourth quarter, we will raise $21 billion. So we are getting better and better, the price and value of Bitcoin is 10 times higher than when we started this journey, and the ecosystem is growing.
But I think the strategy is simple, which is to issue credit instruments such as preferred stocks, provide US dollar returns, or issue a portion of the gains of Bitcoin, while providing some downside protection. People will buy stocks, equity derivatives or options because they want more leveraged Bitcoin; people will buy preferred stocks because they want lower volatility, lower risk and lower leverage and guaranteed returns. We will take care of both aspects, and there is no reason why this model cannot continue to scale as the ecosystem expands.
Q4: The executive order creating a strategic bitcoin reserve effectively places the task of finding a budget-neutral way to purchase bitcoin on the Treasury and Commerce departments. Are you advising members of the White House cabinet, or do you have any suggestions for their approach?
Saylor: I think we have a great cabinet with a lot of Bitcoin supporters and a lot of great ideas, many of which have been proposed by the Bitcoin Policy Institute and by members of the cabinet. Its beyond my purview to decide what the U.S. government will do and when, but I do think the United States has a great opportunity.
If I were advising the United States, I would say, understand, the worlds money is going to flow into cyberspace, into the Bitcoin network, and its in the best interest of the United States to have as much of it as possible before the rest of the world realizes it.
Q 5: Im curious to know if the basic idea of Bitcoin has changed fundamentally. In the past, people believed that Bitcoin should not be tied to any government or any central bank, but now we see the United States showing this desire to become the capital of cryptocurrency and want all mining activities to be concentrated in the United States. Will this undermine the original positioning of Bitcoin?
Saylor: If all these governments want to hoard Bitcoin now, I think thats a very healthy competition. So when the U.S. expressed support for Bitcoin, Pakistan announced a strategic Bitcoin reserve, which inspired the UAE and the Middle East to also start accumulating Bitcoin. Bitcoin adoption accelerated in Brazil, Mexico as well, and businesses started to act. New York Mayor Eric Adams stood on stage and announced his intention to issue Bitcoin municipal bonds for New York City, which will inspire Miami, Los Angeles, and San Francisco. You know, this is healthy competition. There are enough resources for everyone to have a share, and the Bitcoin network is very resistant to fragility, and this balance of power is formed because the more participants enter the ecosystem, the more diverse and decentralized the protocol becomes, the more difficult it is to corrupt, and the stronger it becomes. This means that it becomes more trustworthy to large economic entities that were originally worried about betting all their economic power on this Bitcoin.
Q 6: President Trump’s meme coin TRUMP has caused a lot of controversy. Many people believe that this has undermined a lot of progress made on some cryptocurrency bills on Capitol Hill, which are now on hold. Senate Democrats specifically mentioned TRUMP. What do you think of this situation?
Saylor: I think the best future for the crypto economy, the crypto industry, and the United States if it wants to build a $100 trillion digital industry depends on the law, and they should define four new asset classes:
Digital commodities. Bitcoin is such an asset, with no issuer;
Next is digital currency, which is a dollar-based stablecoin issued by a regulated bank like Circle;
Then there are digital securities, which are tokenized stocks that can be traded around the world at the speed of light, 24 hours a day, 365 days a year, like Apple stock, or tokenized bonds;
And then finally there are digital tokens, like tokenized fan clubs, tokenized tickets, some kind of tokenized membership.
There are 40 million small businesses in the United States. And if you want to issue a token, you need to be able to issue it in four hours, you need to have an issuer, you need to explain what the token does. The token should have some digital or real-world use, but it should not provide a security, it should not provide a financial use, it should not give you a liquidation preference over the surviving business, it should not provide a 30-year fixed cash flow like a bond. It should be a Joe Rogan token or a Katy Perry token. If Katy Perry wants to issue a token to give her VIP fans the privilege of booking tickets or concert tours 48 hours in advance, and they buy the token, the token is useful. But it is not a security. If she never gives a concert for the rest of her life, the token will collapse. If her concerts are great, the token will soar.
And TRUMP is a meme coin, not a utility coin, how many people will sell this useless token? Only a few people can do it, if they talk about TRUMP, if the Kardashians want to talk about it, or if Joe Rogan wants to sell something, maybe people will buy it. I happen to think that all four assets have their place, and I think the role of tokens is to enable 40 million small businesses that are excluded from the capital markets to enter the capital markets. But I also think that tokens can create innovative business models.
If Joe Rogan says Im going to sell Joe Rogan tokens, and if you buy the tokens Ill give you content that only you can access, and if thats how he wants to make money, as long as he doesnt deceive or defraud his customers, then thats fine. If someone opens an eBay account and sells 47,000 tickets and doesnt deliver any of them, then clearly the tokens should be covered by consumer protection laws, and thats fraud.
Likewise, if you commit fraud on a token, you should be held accountable for consumer fraud, wire fraud. I think the issuer should be held civilly and criminally liable for the damages they cause. But you know, its no different than driving across town, you dont have to wait four years and pay $40 million for SEC lawyers to drive across town. Everyone should be free to do business.
So, we are in a transition period right now, there is no market structure bill, there is no legal definition of digital currency, tokens, securities, digital commodities. If we want this industry to grow 100 times or 1,000 times, if we want to export, we want the US currency to go to the world.
If you need digital currency and want to export securities in the capital market, Apple stocks, ETFs, bonds to the world, you need digital securities. If you want to realize all your ideas and raise funds for all small and medium-sized enterprises, you need crypto tokens. But if you want to export American values, such as sovereignty, trust, currency, and freedom, you have to export Bitcoin. Bitcoin is in line with American values, so this digital commodity must be exported.
It seems to me that we clearly need to do a lot of work on Capitol Hill to get this written into law so that all this debate and anxiety goes away. I think the bottom line is that its not enough to have McKinsey lawyers just write a thousand pages of statutes, and the lawyers think you can fight a lawsuit for twenty years.
You have to define tokens so that a billion people in five seconds can say, Oh, thats the Joe Rogan token, I get it. You also have to define currency so that people can say, Its a digital currency backed by the dollar, I get it, and if a billion people dont understand what I just said in five seconds, then it wont work. Once they understand, theyll say, Its a meme coin, and anyone can sell it. Its just a token, its not a security, its not a commodity, its not a currency, its outside of the classification.
Q7: Do you think it is a good idea to add an amendment that prohibits senior officials, including the President, from directly or indirectly profiting from businesses related to stablecoins or tokens? Is it a good idea to introduce such an imposed measure?
Saylor: I think the important thing to note is that Bitcoin is a commodity, its an asset that has no issuer. What that means is that everybody in government, whether youre the president, a senator, a congressman, you can own a piece of gold, you can own a house, you can own a chicken, you can own farmland, you can own lumber, soybeans, a barrel of oil and Bitcoin, Bitcoin is just property in the form of a commodity.
I think the issuer should be held accountable, and the institutions that issue currency should be regulated by the bank regulators and the FDIC because they are creating money. The issuers of securities should be regulated by the SEC because if you are going to print $100 billion of Apple stock, you have to hold Apple stock and bear the corresponding responsibility.
The token issuer is responsible for any damages it causes through fraudulent conduct. If you commit fraud, then you should be held liable under consumer protection laws and any other applicable laws. This should apply to anyone.
Q 8: Since January, we have seen the SEC, OCC, FDIC, and FED all rescind policies that have hindered the adoption of cryptocurrencies in the United States. You have been here since Monday and have seen many people such as Vice President Vance and David Sacks. What kind of conversations will you have with them about next?
Saylor: I think whats really important in the future is that governments make it clear that Bitcoin is a legal asset, its digital gold, a digital commodity, and they need to promote it to the world that its not a security, its not a token, its not a collectible, and its not a currency.
It is a digital commodity, Bitcoin has reached a market cap of $2 trillion without the support of the banking system, insurance companies, credit rating agencies, and mainstream media, and most of the powers that be in the world are skeptical of it. Therefore, if Bitcoin wants to go to the next level and bring prosperity to us, the world, it needs to educate the world.
And then all of these traditional financial structures of the 20th century treat it as at least a neutral asset. For example, this week the Department of Labor rescinded its guidance discouraging people from allowing employees to put Bitcoin into retirement plans, right? For a while, we were worried that we would be investigated by the Department of Labor if we gave employees the option to buy Bitcoin.
So I think there is a lot of discrimination in the traditional financial system throughout the 20th century, and governments should play a leading role in leading them into 21st century finance.
Beyond that, in the entire digital asset space, as I said, the government needs to clarify the three major things in law, digital currency, digital securities, and digital tokens, which will go a long way toward easing debate, anxiety, confrontation, and conflict. It will also accelerate investment and development of all these digital assets by 10 to 100 times, and the United States will become the worlds digital banker, the worlds digital capital market, and the worlds digital innovator, right? This is good for the United States and the American people, and it takes a pioneer to get the world moving forward. Until the United States defines tokens, currencies, commodities, and securities, the world cannot innovate. Then, every one of our allies will step forward, and youll see an extraordinary explosion of digital innovation that will lead the United States and the world into 21st century digital finance.
Q9: Ive been covering this for the past five years, and weve talked before about how its really a shift from being Bitcoin-centric to having quite a few announcements this week around stablecoins. How do you measure the integration of Bitcoin with the rest of the cryptocurrency ecosystem? Do you think were heading in the right direction?
Saylor: I think the crypto industry is divided to a certain extent, the Bitcoin community is divided from the cryptocurrency community. What has happened in the last six months, or even the last 12 months, since November 5th of last year, is an extraordinary close unity of the entire cryptocurrency industry, cryptocurrency innovators, the stablecoin industry, the Bitcoin industry, traditional financiers on Wall Street, and politicians. They are all working together to pursue a common vision.
People are now realizing that the best thing for the world and the industry is a commodity. Bitcoin and its use case - long-term store of value, capital, currency, digital dollar use case is a medium of exchange that works for everyone. Then there are stocks, whose use case is creating capital markets, innovation and speed. The use case is raising money and creating compelling new products. Two years ago, I thought the industry was only Bitcoin and I barely tolerated it, but a year and a half ago I hated everything else.
I think we have entered a more enlightened political environment where people are now having calm, measured and constructive discussions. For example, I can understand why someone in Turkey or Argentina might want to have dollars in their wallet. If you are a strong supporter of Bitcoin, you dont have to be angry if they want dollars, maybe Bitcoin has its uses.
And then if youre more of a dollar person, you feel like Bitcoin is like a savings account for people who actually have enough dollars, and if youre a small micro business, and there are 400 million of them, they start to feel like, maybe theres a way to issue a token to get funding and then use that money to grow my business.
I shouldnt be ashamed or embarrassed that I needed to raise money to grow my business, theres nothing to be embarrassed about. But two years ago their attitude was, if youre not a commodity, were going to put you in jail or put you out of business.
So people in crypto have had to go through this kabuki performance, this drama of, “I’m going to be a commodity or I’m screwed.” And the truth is, they don’t want to be a commodity, they don’t want to be the next Bitcoin, they want to raise money to grow their business in an ethical, transparent way, but there’s no regulatory path to do that. Now people are starting to realize that maybe there’s an ethical way to sell tokens. I don’t have to hate Bitcoin anymore. And Bitcoiners are thinking, “Okay, now we can exist in this ecosystem and be part of it, and maybe I don’t hate stablecoins, or I hate crypto token holders, or I hate crypto exchanges, or even the entire crypto industry. But I think they’re all better off. And we’re all stronger together.”
If the country is to overcome its challenges, if the industry is to overcome its challenges, then we have to work together to create hundreds of trillions of dollars of value. And the key breakthrough here is not technology, but regulation, specifically digital tokens, digital securities and digital currencies. The industry will grow 100 times, and it may even grow to 100 trillion or more.
The market value of Bitcoin will soar to hundreds of trillions, the country will benefit from it, the industry will benefit from it, and the world will benefit from it. This is our way forward in the future.
